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Mar 05, 2009, 08:31 AM // 08:31
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#1 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: australia
Guild: Rendered Eternal [SouL]
Profession: Mo/Me
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who is in charge of skill updates officially?
im slightly confused as to who is currently working on skill balancing. point me in the right direction SOMEBODY PLZ!!!!!!! i spent an entire fortnight going over elite skills and checking them against every skill that seemed relevant to its pvp balance. i have come up with a LOT of suggestions that will not only counter this current trend of everyone running the same builds over and over and over, but will also restore some faith to players that believe all classes should be able to adapt to any situation given that secondary conditions are the CRUCIAL part of nearly every single pvp build, whether it be a solo build for RA or part of a team build for GvG or HA. so many skills never see any action in either pvp or pve, and that throws the game off balance more than anything.
*please keep in mind too that since peace and harmony is uber strong, a lot of hexs have been buffed. *oh and sorry for the formatting underneath, i copy/pasted from notepad. WARRIOR ******* Cleave - Very unremarkable elite, this should cause cracked armor in addition to damage, increase adrenaline cost to 6 strikes. Triple Chop - too plain to be an elite skill considering scythes hit adjacent foes, add the effects of distracting blow, so you damage and interupt all adjacent foes. Charge! - needs a bit more work considering fall back and incoming have added benefits. Change to - all allies move 33% faster for x-y seconds plus the next attack by allies hits for +x-y damage OR the the next attack used against you does x-y less damage. Bulls Charge - should cause knockdown regardless of foe moving or not. this would be an interesting option so players dont have to use a hammer warrior or be forced to take bulls strike on their bar if they dont use a hammer. Dwarven Battle Stance - this is an interesting skill that could be made better.give it a desperation blow touch but change the effects to 20% chance to interupt, 20% chance to knockdown, 20% chance to 3 strikes of adrenaline, 5% chance to renew this stance. 10 second duration, 20 second recharge, only works with hammers. Skull Crack - lower the adrenaline cost 6. With the current range of condition removal available, this would make it a lot more playable. Forceful Blow - completely inferior to devastating hammer. add cripple to it and it might seem more worthwhile. Headbutt - think about the skill description for a second.... if you headbutt someone you expect *them* to be dazed and not the other way round. since its a touch skill, just have it disable the foes skills for x amount of seconds and drop the energy cost and recharge times. maybe something like 5 energy, 10 sec recharge, foes skills are disabled for 3 seconds and they take x-y damage. Magehunter Strike - the damage needs to brought up a bit to compare with other elites. RANGER ****** Marksman's Wager - do rangers need energy that badly that they would sacrifice an elite slot? give this skill some real power, make it live up to its name by making it inflict 3 random conditions for x-y seconds, if it is blocked it is disabled for x-y seconds, change to attack instead of preparation. Archers Signet - not very useful since in pve most foes die pretty fast without the need for conditions, even in hard mode, and in pvp condition duration doesnt matter too much as condition removal skills are abundant. change to next x-y attack skills cause +x-y extra damage and arrows move twice as fast. could be useful to buff one or two of the lesser used preparations. Broadhead Arrow - make the arc a bit smaller, this attack is far too easy to dodge. Equinox - to put this skill to good use, simply change to all spells cast within range cause 1-3 (if you count them as single energy points) points of exhaustion. this should not be a giant problem for anyone since spirits can be killed very quickly. it would also discourage the use of those lame mass aoe builds on capture point maps and make players use their heads to capture... Famine - the damage is not comparable to edge of extinction considering how it works, its easier to to kill a target than it is to intentionally drain all their nrg. up the damage a bit and it might be a little more useful. Rampage As One - deep down, everyones favourite ranger skill. this needs to be put back in action. drop the cost to 15, extend the recharge to 20. this would make it similar to primal rage, and balanced because you still need charm animal and comfort animal and on top of that, rangers generally dont reach the high dps that warriors can. Scavengers Focus - again, rangers generally dont require insane amounts of energy. this skill should apply extra damage to foes affected by conditions, like a reverse version of vow of strength. MONK **** Signet Of Judgement - since its damage was decreased, its only fair the recharge should be decreased, drop to 15 seconds. Healing Hands - completely inferior to healing seed. make it heal target ally and 2 nearby allies. Amity - remove the "ends when foe takes damage" and it might see some action. since the buff to peace and harmony, this should make it balanced. Mark Of Protection - in pve, you might get one cast per mob of foes before they are dead, largely useless, in pvp, battles take longer and people usually create builds around an elite, so 45 seconds is just ridiculous for a recharge time. make it 30 seconds so it gets some use and doesnt keep everyone invincible. Blessed Light - monks cannot afford to spam this skill, the energy cost is too high for a 3 second recharge. make it give a set amount of energy back if both a hex and a condition are removed. Scribe's Insight - a lot of signet recharge times are horribly slow which renders this skill useless, either up the energy gained to 5, or make it similar to mantra of inscriptions. Light Of Deliverance - balance this a little more with heal party, drop recharge to 8, increase heal party recharge to 5. Divert Hexes - needs to be brought in line with peace and harmony, drop cost to 5, increase recharge to 7, the healing is a even trade with peace and harmony's hex/condition shortening. Withdraw Hexes - a lot of hexes can be spammed relatively fast so extending the recharge on this skill 20-8 per hex is insane. drop the recharge per hex to 5-2 seconds, change the skill cost to 10, change recharge to 10. Healing Burst - not bad for a heal, but the added effect is too small to matter, change to each ally nearby is also healed for 20-35 health. Word Of Censure - 20 sec recharge added if foe is under 33% health? the damage from this spell is too low to warrant that, add at least 15-20 points of damage and drop the added recharge to 10 seconds. NECROMANCER *********** Lingering Curse - far too overpowered, increase the energy cost to 10. Soul Leech - change cast time to 1 second, might see more use. Feast of Corruption - drop cast time to 1 second, decrease dmg by 15%, decrease recharge to 10 seconds. Spiteful Spirit - drop cast time to 1 second, as it is a very dangerous hex, it is often a priority for removal and with the recent buff to peace and harmony, this should balance it. Wither - shorten the duration, increase the energy degen to 2 pips, shorten cast time to 1 sec, increase energy cost to 15. Order Of Apostasy - drop energy cost to 15, change health loss to energy loss (10-5 per monk enchant) so it is still difficult to maintain, yet still useful. Wail Of Doom - the name suits a shout more than a spell, change to 15 energy, make it affect all foes nearby. Signet Of Suffering - not very effective. to get max damage you have to take time to stack enuff hexs on the target, and a damage spike once every 20 seconds is poor. decrease the max dmg to around 100, decrease cast time to 1 sec, decrease recharge to 12 sec MESMER ****** Crippling Anguish - this skill is not balanced against other elite snares. drop the cost and recharge time. Energy Drain - this skill is just utter crap. increase the energy amount foes loses and player gains as there would be no other reason to use it. Ineptitude - for a 4 sec duration, a cost of 10 and a recharge of 20 is a bit much, drop cost to 5, recharge to 15 and damage to a max of 90 (at 14 points in illusion). and yes i do realise that a billion players moaned about it being abused in HB, so it got nerfed, besides, there are more annoying builds in HB now anyway. Mantra Of Recall - drop the energy gain by 7 points and make it recharge 2 random non-elite spells as this could be abused by using arcane mimicry. Signet Of Midnight - needs faster recharge or its not worth elite status. Power Leech - should cause all your spells to have +2 attribute points for x-y seconds, and enemy spells are cast at -2 points for x-y seconds. Hex Eater Vortex - should remove 2 hexes. ELEMENTALIST ************ Thunderclap - this skill is too predictable, take the 3 second wait out for daze or up the damage to 100+. Ether Prodigy - 1 good pro, 3 extremely bad cons. +6 energy regen is nice but when compared to blood is power, you could quite easily lose more than 33% of your health in one hit (and more than likely end up dead) not to mention gaining exhaustion (e-denial) for trying to *recover* energy is just a$$ backwards no matter which way you look at it. As it is, elementalists have pretty good energy management already, so this skill is never going to see much action anywhere in pve or pvp. give it some useful function such as halves the recharge time of next glyph or makes attunements unremovable until they expire. Second Wind - an elite triggered by exhaustion? what a joke... change to if you have less than 5 energy, you gain 25-35 energy, give it a 30 second recharge. this is, in the long run, only equivalent to having an extra pip of energy regen for a certain time since you will be able to continue casting. ASSASSIN ******** Shroud Of Silence - completely retarded, extend duration to 5-10 seconds, drop cost to 10, drop recharge to 20, mainly because blackout does this job better and isnt elite. Shadow Form - essentially, no matter how badly you nerf this skill, it is still going to be used forever for farming. so change it back to how it originally was and people might finally shut up about it  Shadow Shroud - drop the cost to 5, otherwise fine. Golden Skull Strike - needs faster recharge, 10 seconds. RITUALIST ********* spirit health needs to be returned to its original state. they are far far FAR too easy to kill. recharge times are much too high and the cast times are too long and the energy cost of a few of them is just ridiculous for the effect they have e.g. you try to put down anguish/dissonance/soothing/shelter. not only can it be *easily* interupted, thats 25 energy lost for nothing and if by chance you are not interupted, one spell from an fire elementalist or 3 swings of a warriors axe kills it, so you now have wasted 5 seconds of time and 25 energy. very frustrating... they need to be rebuffed so they can be used more effectively in more areas of play. this would greatly increase the diversity of single builds and team builds and put a stop to FOTM meta builds boring the hell out of everyone. the best way to balance the buffs would be to reduce time effects from the spirits such as recuperation e.g. non-spirit allies within its range gain +1...3 health regeneration. this spirit dies after 10...25 seconds. cost 15 energy, cast time 2 seconds, recharge time 30 seconds. so here you have a spirit that is far more flexible, yet still easy to find and kill, since spirits were still very easy to kill before they all had max health reductions. Signet Of Spirits - this is completely inferior to offering of spirit, even if it is free to cast. you still get the same energy, yet offering recharges faster and its quite easy to be in range of a spirit. improve the energy gained by 3-5 points to compensate for the longer recharge. Preservation - due the random nature of the healing, it would be better to make it heal whichever ally has the lowest health, then it would seem a little more worthwhile as most other ritualist restoration elites trample all over this. Soul Twisting - spirits die too fast for this to help much. could change function to an enchantment like for 5 seconds if any spirit you control dies, your next ritual casts 66% faster and recharges instantly. doing this would give you a little more time to prepare for its use, and in pvp it would make players think twice before killing your spirits as soon as they are put down. Weapon Of Fury - drop recharge to 6 seconds and duration to max of 12 seconds. it would give frontline characters a better choice of weapon spell to have on them, as it is, this skill is inferior to splinter weapon, the more obvious choice. Reclaim Essence - if you go about dropping high cost spirits around, the energy gain from this just doesnt cut it, change to 6-12 energy gained per spirit killed. PARAGON ******* Defensive Anthem - the energy cost is a bit high for a paragon, especially since this is always a priority target for interupts, drop cost to 10 energy. alternatively, give it a half recharge time if it is interupted. so then you either have wait the full recharge time to try using it again, or you have to regain your 15 energy fast to try putting it up as quickly as possible which might be a little hard. Song Of Restoration - i think it would be safe to restore the recharge to 20 seconds. It would give paragons a better chance of scoring a support role in pvp again. Cruel Spear - spear version of eviscerate. make the deep wound unconditional to match it with eviscerate. Cautery Signet - drop cast time to 1 second, too easy to interupt as opposed to the monk spell martyr. DERVISH ******* the only thing i could suggest is to change the avatars. they all have a 2 min wait between uses in pvp, which makes them a bad choice against wounding strike and reapers sweep. for more fast paced action, halve the durations and halve the skill disable time so you get a more even spread use. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 09:04 AM // 09:04
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#2 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: just chillin
Guild: Omg Gwen Is Legal [EotN]
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you forgot one thing.
add scatter AI for [Ray of Judgment]. maybe all the dumb Mo/P will leave JQ edit: and the prob with rits is that spawning power need to reduce cast time and/or recharge of binding rituals. Last edited by Rak Orgon of Beowulf; Mar 05, 2009 at 09:11 AM // 09:11.. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29
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#3 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: IGN : Greyhawks Destroyer
Guild: guildless
Profession: W/
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Scavenger Strike i assume you mean not Scavenger Focus, and this skill is VERY useful on ranger pet bars, i love this skill and use it on a lot of my beast bars to keep energy at a max (for running Rampage as one it works well to keep it perma on my hammer guy)
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Mar 05, 2009, 09:46 AM // 09:46
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#4 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jan 2009
Profession: W/A
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I don't like your suggestions, sorry; though, many of the skills you listed are in due need of an overhaul, most of your proposed changes are not to my liking.
Bull's Charge for example, your suggestion is ridiculous. Full 10 second knock lock, or does the stance last longer, I forget... If I were going to change it I would simply remove the condition of it ending if you use a skill. I could comment on the vast majority of the others as well... I will say though, I do at least like the Skull Crack suggestion. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 10:01 AM // 10:01
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#5 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: WI
Profession: Mo/
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no offense but there are quite a few bad suggestions here. also you're reason for warrenting changes on alot of these are based solely on pnh.
*bulls charge would be overpowered if you made it kd regardless because it would keep someone quarterlocked for the duration. besides people take bulls strike because of how powerful it is and its not elite. *bha is fine as it is. it being dodgeable from a distance makes it more balanced. if you're so concerned about the arc just get close to the target. *equinox would be very powerful considering that people don't typically target spirits. maybe having it do some exaustion but making it take damage each time it does would keep it more in line. *rao is fine as well, quite a few people still use this. although it was used more before the PR buff it is still a viable choice. *if soj would get a buff you would just see more abuse from assacaster's. *scribe's insight, an elite to make your other sigs recharge faster would be a waste. *LOD is still seeing play mostly on a smiter in 8v8 type matches. i think if anything the recharge should be dropped a couple secs and just a little bit of a buff to the healing. and upping to recharge to 5 would be completely irrelevant since if you are spamming that skill you are doing it wrong. *signet of midnight is fine, if you drop the recharge you drop the duration as well. *power leech is already overpowered as is, and is one of my most used spells. a couple of casts and it drains the foe dry, cover with ether phantom and gg. *shadow form, ive said this time and time again if they're so concerned about the skill just disable it for 60 seconds or so after casting it. *defensive anthem is actually used more by paragons than any other i've seen(in terms of pvp). this is fine as it is and 15e shouldnt be too hard since you get energy back from leadership. *and for dervishes you have nothing to suggest? how about buffing onslaught again. as easy as it is to remove at least make it 33% ims/ias to keep it more in line with primal and rao. granted primal is only 25% ims now but it is also a stance and much harder to remove. *lastly i personally would like vow of silence to allow allies' spells to be able to target you but it is already dominating for running so it'd be fine if it doesn't get changed. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 10:11 AM // 10:11
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#6 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Växjö, Sweden
Guild: Stop Stealing [agro]
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
oh and the fact that Triple chop is one of the most viable skills in pve, this buff would just make it insanely overpowered imo. Oh, and buffing all hexes just because we now have an imba hex removal seems pretty retarded to me. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27
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#7 | |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: australia
Guild: Rendered Eternal [SouL]
Profession: Mo/Me
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ahh now we are getting somewhere!
Quote:
2. gettin close to a target kind of makes the whole point of being a ranged attacker redundant, but i can see where you are coming from. 3. excellent suggestion for equinox ^^ 4. yes, RaO can still be used and is still used but not nearly as much as it could be. and im not talkin as much as the old spiritway days, but it could do with a little nudge. 5. assacasters already abuse the hell out of it, so it makes little difference :P 6. what if scribes also made signets activate faster? just another thought... 7. the suggestion for LoD was a throw to its original state, i dont recall LoD infusers taking heal party as well. so it would be a choice between one or the other. 8. SoM, yeh i kinda forgot to mention the blind duration :S 9. it is nice, i wouldn't say overpowered tho since any smart player will just stop casting, just like diversion or shame really. 10. im not touchin anymore on the subject of shadow form, theres already enough drama surrounding that :P 11. tried running legoway lately? DA aint what it used to be, and it would be better off receiving any kind of small buff than staying the way it is. even 2 more seconds on its duration would be good. 12. VoS is a tricky one indeed, i believe spells that affect all party members still work. better left alone i guess... thank you for your input, this is exactly what i am looking for. even tho i did my best as checking out balance between other skills, im not a god, i don't know everything and every angle you can look at things. so keep the input coming and eventually we might end up with a decent list that can be submitted to the current skill balancer for consideration. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47
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#8 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Quote:
to balance [Rampage as one], you'd have to make it more like [Never Rampage Alone] : no running speed boost RaO has been abused for ages, the only reason you don't see it that much in ha now is that PS assassins are more imba I won't talk about other elites you mentioned, but some of your proposals seem a bit much to me, especially bull's charge and broadhead arrow |
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Mar 05, 2009, 10:51 AM // 10:51
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#9 | |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: australia
Guild: Rendered Eternal [SouL]
Profession: Mo/Me
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Quote:
Last edited by viscus; Mar 05, 2009 at 11:04 AM // 11:04.. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 11:13 AM // 11:13
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#10 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dallas, Texas
Guild: Zero Quality [zQ] /[LaG]/[USA]/[iQ]
Profession: A/E
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Something to consider that completely destroys the "balance" or lack-there-of in Guild Wars is due to a few things.
Random buffing of skills "because they don't see much play" in effect causes new over powered builds that as a result need more balancing. As an attempt to "balance" the system, the game can either be correctly balanced, or the game becomes more imbalanced. ~Example: More heals are introduced into the game, the ability to damage is increased in the game. As a result people run more defense to counter the offense. Defense gets nerfed if the amount of damage is reduced, that way the defensive team actually needs a set standard of damage to be effective, or to accomplish anything. People are even responding with ideas now why things would be overpowered. I can guarantee you right now that 1/5th of the imbalances you have suggested haven't even been mentioned yet. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47
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#11 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: australia
Guild: Rendered Eternal [SouL]
Profession: Mo/Me
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some of the imbalances are just setting skills back to the way they were in the first place. and the reason they were nerfed was overuse. so if they are now not being used at all, i dont see any reason not to give them their original status back. this kind of thing is the reason players go from one popular build to another with many players never trying to create their own builds, take palm strike for example. palm strike + trampling ox + falling spider/lotus, a combination that anyone could have put together, just like steak, potato and gravy. there is no end to it one way or the other, there is only continuous complaining from people that always think there is only one way to do things. what i have tried to do here is give every profession some more distinct advantages so you have considerably more choices. nothing is perfect, the game certainly never will be but there should be a way to make it more varied. people get set in their ways and dont like change, but, change is inevitable. what truly destroys this game however, is the fact that you can observe matches and steal other peoples *original* builds and then post them so you get more of the same garbage. without more choice, it leads to FOTM/meta/lameway because hardly anyone bothers making more creative builds, they just make variations of variations. its frustrating and irritating to be kicked out of a team when asked to ping your bar and you dont have the exact meta bar that everyone expects. heres an example that recently happened to me.... i joined a team in HA, balanced, as the prot. they kicked me because i refused to take shielding hands. their reason for kicking me was because they thought i was a noob since "SH is so great against those noob palm sins". well my reply was "oh i guess guardian is useless then.....*sarcasm*". now, my point is, exactly when did shielding hands become meta???? and who decided that it was absolutely required for HA???
anyway, as ive stated already, im only suggesting options for change. im not like everyone else who usually just suggest one or 2 skill changes, ive proposed a broader view of a large percentage. keep the input coming... |
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Mar 05, 2009, 12:56 PM // 12:56
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#12 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Quote:
but I'll just explain a bit more as I have time to waste : a RaO + his pet have a dps equal if not superior to a warrior, I played both, and I know what I'm talking about : constant IAS + IMS on both the pet and the ranger result in more dps than a standard warrior when I'm talking about curses and smite, it's just because that's what you'll find in nearly any build using a RaO ranger, as they work very well together : barbs, for instance, can do terrible damage when both the ranger and his pet are on the same target (something around 40/50 damage for each hit + barbs) endurance warriors are outdated now we have primal rage, precisely because IAS + IMS is the best thing a melee could ever wish to have I love how you think people are "narrow minded" because they only refer to efficient builds... imo, there are only 3 kind of weapons a RaO should ever use : hammer (kd + bestial mauling), axe (dchop + pet interrupts) or spear (conditions), anything else can be done more efficiently with a different elite just look at the meta, try to use the builds, and you'll be able to see what's wrong with the elites skills... RaO is imbalanced because high energy cost is not a sufficient drawback to a constant IAS + IMS for rangers |
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Mar 05, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34
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#13 | |
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Grotto Attendant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Guild: The German Order [GER]
Profession: N/
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Quote:
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Mar 05, 2009, 02:20 PM // 14:20
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#14 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/
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So, basically, you don't like that people have to bring certain skills in order to compete, but your suggestion is to make PnH essentially mandatory with a hundred and one hex buffs?
That's as far as I got before I had to stop reading. I'm sure other people will mutilate your work in greater detail. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06
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#15 | |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jan 2009
Guild: [SOTA]
Profession: D/
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Quote:
You've never played a Dervish, have you. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 03:13 PM // 15:13
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#16 |
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Atra esterní ono thelduin
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madness Incarnate
Guild: [Duo]
Profession: W/P
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lol, ur bull's charge + on your knees = auto double kd =D
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Mar 05, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23
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#17 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Profession: A/
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Quote:
On a more related note, a lot of these suggestions are just plain bad, just to mention one particular suggestion that caught my attention: "Thunderclap - this skill is too predictable, take the 3 second wait out for daze or up the damage to 100+." You forgot to add a knockdown and make the damage armor ignoring. /end sarcasm. |
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Mar 05, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54
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#18 |
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Emo Goth Italics
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Is this supposed to be painful? I've only read Bull's Charge more or less and the comments show that you are utterly terrible at this.
And when I say painful I don't just mean the "balances". |
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Mar 05, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30
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#19 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Serbia
Profession: Me/
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I only looked at the mesmer ones and they are terrible. No offense dude.
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Mar 06, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02
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#20 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Where no man has ever gone before.
Guild: Syndicate Nightmare [SyN]
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[Chilling Victory] should remain true to the Scythe Mastery attribute even in PvP.
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